Personal Registration Databases

[keefyboy]

Don't worry Chris (from end of Feb posts) - you are not alone. I too was mystified by some of this more recent aircraft jargon and I was gonna ask the same question myself about scrapes! Ollie confirmed what I suspected - though to me, a frame is a frame, regardless of registration. If I repaint my car and give it a personalised reggie - does that mean I've not seen that car before?

As it's snowy and we can't see bugger all overhead - I thought I'd chip in as March 2018 reports are going snowhere at the mo! As a few on here might know, my own records - which started around 1965 - are in a complete mess with registrations logged in many different publications over the years. What I would now like to find is one single volume that records all UK G- from the year dot (I have one published that covers up to 1969 and a TAHS register that covers 1919 to 1985). If any of you guys know of a book that covers all G-, including all the numerous re-registrations, from year dot till now, then please share with all on this forum.

Similarly, I have a BARG volume which covers all UK military up to ZE--- published around 1982. Do you know if there's anything out there that updates this to the present day - the beauty of the BARG book was that it allowed one to add date/location seen. I know there is the Wolverhampton group that is great for serial data but not in book form.

Also - I have numerous books listing airliner production by c/n - though I'm not particularly good at transferring data from one book to another. I'm curious - just how do you guys know how many of each aircraft you've seen? Do you have some sort of super duper software that tells you if your daily spot is a new frame or just a scrape? Does it tally up how many you've seen by type? When you were talking about numbers for specific aircraft types a few weeks back - I had to go back to 1992 records to come up with 840 707's and some 300+ 135's - I had to count them from the books (and it excludes pots from 92 onwards) though it seems to me that many of you guys can do this stuff at the touch of a button!

I'm really sounding totally ignorant now but what's your experience of recording data?

Cheers

Keith

[Trevor B]

Mar 1, 2018 17:36:14 GMT keefyboy said:

Don't worry Chris (from end of Feb posts) - you are not alone. I too was mystified by some of this more recent aircraft jargon and I was gonna ask the same question myself about scrapes! Ollie confirmed what I suspected - though to me, a frame is a frame, regardless of registration. If I repaint my car and give it a personalised reggie - does that mean I've not seen that car before?

As it's snowy and we can't see bugger all overhead - I thought I'd chip in as March 2018 reports are going snowhere at the mo! As a few on here might know, my own records - which started around 1965 - are in a complete mess with registrations logged in many different publications over the years. What I would now like to find is one single volume that records all UK G- from the year dot (I have one published that covers up to 1969 and a TAHS register that covers 1919 to 1985). If any of you guys know of a book that covers all G-, including all the numerous re-registrations, from year dot till now, then please share with all on this forum.

Similarly, I have a BARG volume which covers all UK military up to ZE--- published around 1982. Do you know if there's anything out there that updates this to the present day - the beauty of the BARG book was that it allowed one to add date/location seen. I know there is the Wolverhampton group that is great for serial data but not in book form.

Also - I have numerous books listing airliner production by c/n - though I'm not particularly good at transferring data from one book to another. I'm curious - just how do you guys know how many of each aircraft you've seen? Do you have some sort of super duper software that tells you if your daily spot is a new frame or just a scrape? Does it tally up how many you've seen by type? When you were talking about numbers for specific aircraft types a few weeks back - I had to go back to 1992 records to come up with 840 707's and some 300+ 135's - I had to count them from the books (and it excludes pots from 92 onwards) though it seems to me that many of you guys can do this stuff at the touch of a button!

I'm really sounding totally ignorant now but what's your experience of recording data?

CheersKeith have a look at Aviation Database - www.aviationdatabases.com which I have been using for nearly 20 years, but there are others as well like Aerodata software ltd.

[rugbyref]

Have a look at Planebase. It took me ages to populate from my paper records, but now it is invaluable, and voluntary donations only rather than a fee. Those totals take a matter of seconds to find.

[Jeff]

I can confirm planebase is fantastic, and free, they do ask for a donation every year but its not an issue if you dont donate. Easy program to use plenty of updates, 2 times a week sometimes, i couldnt be without it, saying that i do get the urge to buy a book every year... lol, no idea why !!

[keefyboy]

Thanks Trevor, rugbyref and Jeff.

Just how reliable are these databases in these days of cyberspace? I mean are you putting all your eggs in one basket? What happens when sites shut down? Do you lose your data or what? Do you employ your own backup systems?

Sorry but I'm curious

Thanks

Keith

[mick]

Personally I use ADU.

With ADU they also have a mobile access so as long as you have WiFi/ Data Roaming you can log aircraft and check the data base out and about, both home and overseas.
This then syncs in with you main Data Base.

Its an annual fee but not excessive and very good value for money. Updated regularly.


Mick

[keefyboy]

Also, how do these databases handle the re-issue of the same registrations to different aircraft like they do in Germany and the USA?

Sorry Jeff - it's still snowing but maybe if I continue with this it should be in a separate thread?

Cheers
Keith

[mick]

Im not an expert but its all to do with frame/construction numbers.

I think you will find the data bases are regularly updated through various open source searches and those in "The know"

ADU for instance will come up with N741CK as a 747 with a construction number of 21679 and another of 24315 coupled with a A for active or W for withdrawn. The Active one would normally be at the top of the list. When processed It would indicate wether it was required, scrape or seen before.
It would also differentiate between a light aircraft or jet as is the case with a some Canadian registered aircraft

Hope that helps

[keefyboy]

I think I understand what you are saying Mick. So the N741CK I may have seen in the 80's is not necessarily the same N741CK I may have seen in the noughties - I just need to go through my log books and check dates - oh bugger!!

Also - the whole concept of re-using the same reggies as so many countries seem to do make it difficult for people like us!!

Cheers
Keith

[rh226]

As far as I was concerned, my classic example was the old Johnson & Johnson Jetstar N600J which was at least three different airframes.  Thanks to Stuart Jessup & Andy Mower's Bizjet book (in the early '80s), I managed to work out that I had seen incarnations 2 and 3.

[rugbyref]

Planebase generates a back up file on your own computer (I think in MS Access, but don’t hold me to that.)

[graham]

I've been meaning to upgrade to a similar system for the past couple of years but haven't gotten round to it yet. At present I only do con numbers for airliners and biz, all else just by reg so I record all airliners and biz on two Excel databases, one by country/reg/operator/date seen and the second based on con numbers. This will highlight a scrape immediately by its con number. So for example, I might see a GLF5 with reg of say N999ZZ but when I check the con number spreadsheet, it will tell me if I've already sent that frame albeit with a different reg. All Excel files are shared with DropBox so I can check with my phone right away whether or not I've seen a specific frame.

[billsamuels]

Hi Guys,

Like a lot of you my ‘paper’ version went back to about 1964.... I used it up until about 4 years ago when Dean (deanoitfc) persuaded me to invest my future spotting into ADU... It was a daunting task, back then, but four years on my entire life’s work is almost in place.  When I say almost in place this means that over the time in question there are always lots of things like mispoles, notes of stuff you’ve seen but not ID’d fully and, sadly, simple mistakes... 

So whilst I spent many hours of my life putting all the logs into ADU, when I go out and about spotting with the guys I get home and generally log up the days activities within 15-30 minutes, all done. If it’s a really big day (100 plus sightings, then these may take a little longer, and if it’s a really big day maybe an hour... But, having put it all in, it dissects it by Country, and owner, so everything is in order - numerically or alphabetically.

Databases also give you ‘base reports’ and ‘museum reports’ so if you wanted to know what’s based at your local field, say Fairoaks, you can ask the system and it will give you a complete list and will also tell you what you need and don’t need. The same goes for museum collections... 

You can also interrogate the system to tell you ‘how many frames/scrapes you’ve seen by year, and how many of a particular aircraft type you have seen... I’ve often asked myself questions like these in the past and then hazard a guess, with a database you know for sure...  

But like most things electronic, the information you get out is only as good as the information you put in... That’s why the twice weekly updates, which take about a minute, from ADU is so valuable...

The important questions for me are; am I glad I did it - sure, best thing I ever did for my hobby. Am I will to spend annually £30 approx for the subscription - sure am, I used to spend twice that, and more, on various books that needed underlining every year!!

One final point, you back-up your data as often as you like, I tend to do it at least once a month. By doing this if the system ever collapses, you have a copy of it....

So, whichever system you choose, do it. It’s made my life so much easier and saves so much time...

Cheers Guys.

Bill

[keefyboy]

Thanks for that Bill.

You and I are pretty much the same age and I don't want to spend the rest of my life populating a database. However, what you have done makes sound sense to me so can I please ask how long it might take - in say manhours - to add something like 100k serials? Is it just a case of entering the serial? I would also like to add date and location but this would obviously add to the workload.

PS: Most of my records are just underlined though I do have the original supporting written logs going back to 1969 at least (in the loft assuming they've not perished) - also a few spreadsheets for new RAF (post 82) and foreign military.

Cheers

Keith

[Jeff]

Planebase allows you to run computerised spreadsheet straight into the database, not sure on ADU though. Over to you Bill

[gtf4j2m]

I computerised my records & all my logs going back to to 1969 (it took a few years to do), so I can find anything within minutes. I have databases for airliners, biz, biz-prop, light, helicopters, military on seperate databases, all logged with c/n, first reg seen. & where seen. Any subsequent regns or airline changes, squadron changes or any other info is logged on the one record per aircraft & this includes what photo's I have taken of that frame in its many guises. This builds up a history of each individual aircraft as I have seen it. Very simple and I don't have to subscribe to ADU or any other user. I back everything up on two USB sticks.
I also have a database that I have compiled of all current british regd aircraft, updated from Air Britain every month that I use to compile logs etc. This uses regn, type, c/n and all military marks that are being used on civil aircraft. It takes a couple of days a month to update all info but its free.

I also have a list, updated once a week from various sources, that I print out showing all current British, European and some worldwide airliners in regn /cn /type layout this is printed in black with red for anything seen, if seen before just the c/n is red. I use the same format for a bizjet list which included all european worldwide for the bigger biz, Gulfs, challengers etc.  I use a similar system for military. All this info is in a small A5 file that can fit in my camera bag.
With over 75000 logged it is to much for underlining in books, something I have not done for 30 odd years

Graham
GTF4J2M

[billsamuels]

Mar 2, 2018 21:21:10 GMT Jeff said:

Planebase allows you to run computerised spreadsheet straight into the database, not sure on ADU though. Over to you Bill

I wish I knew Jeff. I’m a complete novice and can just about do the basics. There are all sorts of actions/requests you can ask from the system relating to all sorts of things. So if there are any other ADU subscribers on AFA who can readily answer the question, please be my guest...

These things are always subjective but I’ve found the use of ‘a database’ really has made my admin of the hobby so much easier, streamlined and so much more efficient. 

Cheers.

Bill

[billsamuels]

Mar 2, 2018 20:41:17 GMT keefyboy said:

Thanks for that Bill.

You and I are pretty much the same age and I don't want to spend the rest of my life populating a database. However, what you have done makes sound sense to me so can I please ask how long it might take - in say manhours - to add something like 100k serials? Is it just a case of entering the serial? I would also like to add date and location but this would obviously add to the workload.

PS: Most of my records are just underlined though I do have the original supporting written logs going back to 1969 at least (in the loft assuming they've not perished) - also a few spreadsheets for new RAF (post 82) and foreign military.

Cheers

Keith

Hi Keith,

Apologies for the delay in responding mate. 

I have two versions that I store my info; 50 odd years of logs (stored, like yours, in a box) and then three large box folders (by Country (two volumes) and one, for purely military. However, this form was updated when aircraft were seen, registration, type, operator and where and when seen. Therefore, whilst valuable info, it was completely out of sequence both alphabetically and numerically, and a real bind when trying to see what you have potted and what you’ve seen before. 

I can’t talk for other databases but ADU starts logging by year, date and then location - so for me it was a no brainer to elect the logs option for my source of logging... My first sightings go back to 1966 so following advice from Deano, I started with my most recent logs and then started to work backwards, in time. To be honest you have to put a lot of time into the process, so I used to try to put in a couple of hours every night and at weekends and whenever the weather was bad!! It did take me over 2.5 years to complete 99% of my spotting life - and I’m still tidying lots of old logs as we speak... But to quote some figures from my database, I’ve now inputted over 91,000 entries, this equates to me having seen almost 60,000 individual frames and of these some 6,000 have been scraped (so seen more than once). I can also tell you how many frames by type I have seen, how many times I have visited any particular airport and how many frames I have seen by Country, in a heart beat.

So, to answer your question Keith, prior to utilising a database I would guesstimate what I’d seen, never really knowing how many or what I had actually seen unless I spent Hours wading thru out of sequence County lists - frankly I’m embarrassed to say, my admin was a bunch of dogs-poo.... Now, it’s 99% complete, it’s a completely different picture....

One other thing I forgot to mention is the connectivity between ADU and your SBS (if you have one) and your remote electronic device(s) - these can all be linked (I don’t, mainly because I need to sit down to see the system in action) which means you can access your database away from the home base and log sighting remotely, and when using SBS you can get the ADU to only show you what frames/scrapes you need thus cutting out the stuff you’ve already seen... As I say, I don’t at the moment but will convert at some point in the future.

I hope this helps Keith. I’m not trying to sell ADU because there are others available on the market, but i’m Fully satisfied with it, use it most days and it really has revolutionised my spotting habits for the better. If you wanted to see it in action I’d be happy to show you mate.

Cheers for now, as there is some blue sky appearing...

Bill

[Jeff]

The SBS option Bill speaks of is also avail on planebase, and I wouldnt be without the function nowadays. I tend ti have my sbs running if im at home and I run it in conjuction with a program called 'joinme' which in turn lets me view my sbs screen via a mobile phone or tablet, quite handy in the summer months in the garden or even while watching tv as there are no wires boxes or aeriel attached to the tablet or phone

[keefyboy]

Thanks for your very informative and comprehensive responses guys. You've given me enough information to make a start on computerising my logs this year. As you suggest Bill, I will start with the most recent stuff - as that is where all my current problems are - nothing in book form can ever be up to date for more than a month or so I guess.

Much appreciated

Keith

[keefyboy]

I should have added a PS: to my message above and that is that transferring data from - eg one CAM to the next - the data in the previous CAM drops off and gets lost in the mire. So like you guys recommend - a computer database is a no brainer. I've learnt a lot on this thread which was started by accident! - I'm quite happy to pay a few quid each year to make spotting easier - a great hobby which even makes trips to the beach with the grandchildren interesting whilst their busy doing their stuff.

Cheers folks
Keith

[zz]

I’m finding this thread interesting, as I’m tempted to convert to such a database myself.

Currently, I type everything into Word documents so I have my own “databases”.
First of all I type up a “neat” log- basically what I’ve seen that day, from the notebook.
So I have a Log for 2018, 2017... back to 1981 (although pre 95ish the logs are written!)

From those logs, I then type everything into registers by country.
So I have a British civil register and a military register, a US civil register and a military register...etc

It’s as time-consuming as it sounds and I’m only current up to Feb 2016.
But it means I can see how many I’ve seen from each country- if I wanted to know how many of each type, I would have to look through every register. Fine for some types, not so good for say, a B737. And there is not always an obvious way of me knowing if it’s a “scrape” or “frame”. That doesn’t bother me too much in everyday spotting, but would obviously be relevant if I was counting how many of a certain type I had seen.

So, I’m interested in what these databases have to offer, BUT-

1) As of Feb 2016, I have 96500 registrations/serials, so there is the obvious time concern.
2) How complete are these databases? So for example, if I see a foreign microlight which doesn’t have a full registration with prefix, will it be in the database? If not, how do I note it?
3) What about replicas/false marks...etc ? Again, will they be listed?

If anyone can answer these, I’d be interested! Thanks!

[Jeff]

Hi, firstly, i dont think logs can be run straight in to the database direct from a word document, exel yes.
As for completeness, if its not in the database you can get it added by contacting for example the microlight editor.... or indeed become an editor yourself.... im talking about planebase by the way, not sure how adu works in this respect

[zz]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for that. So things can be added as necessary, that’s good.

But the thought of inputting everything I’ve ever seen, puts me off!

Perhaps if I break my leg and need something to do for weeks on end...!

Cheers

[Jeff]

Lol, i wonder if theres a way of importing word to exel 🤔

[rh226]

Depending on how you have set out your Word document, there could well be a way, Jeff.

If you have set Word out as columns separated by tabs (is best)/spaces/etc., you just highlight the entire Word document (or use Ctrl+A) then copy and paste into the 1st Column of an Excel spreadsheet.  Then you use the Excel "Text to Columns" facility - remembering to specify what your Word "column separator" was.  You may find a few oddities that will need tidying up (i.e. put odd letters/figures into their correct columns) and delete any blank lines that may occur, but that should do the job for you.

Cheers,

Bob

[mikeburdett]

I thoroughly recommend Planebase. As has been pointed out it is free to use and only ask for Donations once a year.

For those of you who already have a database, Planebase can convert your loggings into Planebase to avoid you having to log them all up again.

Regarding peoples views on Frames/Scrape. Planebase has an option to choose if you want to collect registrations or frames.

They also have a multilog option, this you simply put in the registration and it looks everything up for you and if the registration has been used more than once then you will get an option to choose which one it is you saw.

There is also a Planebase mobile app for Android users too which I use and is excellent for when you are out and about.

I did edit for Planebase but am taking a break for now from it so if anybody would like to ask anymore questions please do ask away, I can also do some screenshots for people later tonight if it is wanted to show the various things it is capable of.

Cheers

Mike B

[billsamuels]

Hi Guys,

When I was at work I did several courses on spreadsheets and databases and whilst I used to think that my collection of over 50 years of spotting was a prime candidate to be put onto a self built version, I never quite got the inclination to proceed... I could never quite grasp how, by entering my sighting into a log spreadsheet, you could get it to automatically transfer into a ‘Country’ spreadsheet... I’m sure it must be possible but I just wasn’t that advanced!!!

But just to answer one of ZZ’s questions, when you establish a days log in ADU, you simply add Year (drop down), put in specific date (05/03/2018) then select location (LHR/FAB or wherever you are, even home) from that point you just type in the registration and once you’ve found the right aircraft (old logging generally gives you multiple choice, if serial has been used several times), and then enter. Once you’ve done that the contact goes into ever section you need it to go... Job done. It really is that quick.

Mine took me about 2.5 years to complete, but on long winter nights you just crack on...

As to the question of microlight registrations. I do find the French one’s a little difficult, in so much that I never know which to use. So I tend to write both into my paper log and then normally at least one (sometimes both) will be in the database... I always get confused as to which type is registered to the pilot... Only the French could dream that one up!!  Anyway, if there is one missing in the database, I would then contact the relevant editor, provide him with the reg, type, con number and he would then add it to the relevant section - once the database is updated, done at least twice a week, it would then be live for you to add to your log...

There’s no question putting your collection into a database does take time, now mines done I consider it time well spent, but there were moments when I wondered if it would be... So if you want to, and you have a vast collection like ZZ, just be prepared that once it’s done, it’s done, but it may take a while. It will always be up to date, you’ll not need to go through the same exercise again, and even those big logging days out, your actual logging process will be completed in no time at all.

I’m so proud of my collection now... 

Cheers fellas.

Bill

[zz]

Thanks for your replies guys.

You have all made it all very interesting and very tempting...

I did have a VERY quick attempt (at work!) at Bob’s suggestion of converting an example Word document into an Excel spreadsheet.
It was unsuccessful! But I’ll have another go!

I’ll have a think about it all - maybe I need a trial!

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply

Phil

[mikeburdett]

Mar 5, 2018 18:04:18 GMT zz said:

Thanks for your replies guys.

You have all made it all very interesting and very tempting...

I did have a VERY quick attempt (at work!) at Bob’s suggestion of converting an example Word document into an Excel spreadsheet.
It was unsuccessful! But I’ll have another go!

I’ll have a think about it all - maybe I need a trial!

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply

Phil

Phil

Good thing with planebase is once you have it downloaded if you decide it isn't for you then all you do is uninstall and that is that.

Do you want me to have a look at one of the Word documents? I think I can probably convert it into Excel for you.

Mike B