Registration Required for this.

[gull04]

Hi Folks,

Looking for a registration, the picture below was taken at Chandler Memorial, AZ in 2002.

The information that I have is that the Aircraft belonged to two brothers and as brothers do they fell out, however one brother took the bits that a spotter was interested in - the bit with the registration on it. There was no constructors plate visible on the Aircraft, so there's not that much to go on for this one - but the site has engendered hope - as apparently most questions and requests for information are answered.




I have looked for this before for a friend, without much success I might add - so any information would be welcome.

Regards

Dave

[davebasing]

Hi Dave. Sorry personally cant help although there have been requests on this on other sites including in the US over the years but to no avail. Have been to Chandler a few times and it was certainly there as long ago as 1998 when it was complete except for the area where the registration was had been cut out on both sides. Some wag had painted "enigma" on the later removed cowling!

[gull04]

Hi Dave,

Thanks, I guess that I'll just have to keep looking - I've got pretty good US Civil records going back to 1992 and I'm pretty sure that it will be in there, but with only a type to go on its not really going to be that easy to identify it.

That of course is based on the premise that it carried a US registration, I'm pretty sure that it did - but it is not a certainty.

Regards

Dave

[adi44]

Morning Dave & Dave,

Uhm, good one. I spent an hour or so last night having a look at this to no avail. Looking at the FAA De-Registered File and cross referencing it with the NTSB Database I came up with these Ayres S2's in Arizona :-

N4003W 2471R 0970101 Dms Ag Services , Yuma , AZ 04/06/1997 w/o 16-02-1994 at Jackson Agricultural Airport, Winterhaven, Ca - Destroyed by Fire

N4006K 2501R 0970101 Marsh Aviation International Inc , Mesa , AZ 06/01/1997 w/o 14-06-1996 At Oracle, AZ whilst firefighting - Impacted Terrain

N4008X 2522R 0970101 Morris Ag Air & Sons Inc , Yuma , AZ 19/09/2011 Exported to Argentina (Picture on ABPic dated 03-10-2005 prior to export)

N4017A 2556R 0970101 Custom Farm Service Of Arizona , Stanfield , AZ 01/12/1981 Exported to Mexico

N5678X 2399R 0970102 Marsh Aviation , Mesa , AZ 14/06/1978 Exported to Israel

N40203 T34020 0970106 Ag Aviation , Buckeye , AZ 16/02/1994 w/o 15-07-1993, collided with powerlines at Buckeye, AZ - destroyed in the obstacle & ground collision

N4018Q T34-021 0970106 Morris Equipment Llc , Yuma , AZ 10/08/2018 w/o 02-06-2015, Blythe, CA - Stalled & Crashed

N4020Y T34-022 0970106 Sale Reported , Scottsdale , AZ 13/08/2013 w/o 12-07-2002 at Firebaugh, CA - Left Main Gear detached on landing, veered off runway

N3105B T34136DC 0970106 Goodwin Susan Trustee , Stanfield , AZ 18/02/1997 w/o 05-04-1995 collided with powerlines at Stanfield , AZ - Destroyed by Fire

N3299H T45-011DC 0970111 Aircraft And Equipment Holdings Llc , Phoenix , AZ 21/09/2011 Exported to Australia

Columns are Registration, C/N, FAA Model Code, Registered Owner, Cancellation Date, Fate

So, either the aircraft is still current on USCAR (Highly unlikely given the FAA purges in recent years) or your "Brothers" did not live in Arizona (or more accurately did not provide the FAA with an Arizona mailing address), and the aircraft was simply flown into Chandler from another state and abandoned there.....

Not much help I am afraid, I think this could be one of those dreaded question marks

Cheers

Adrian

[gull04]

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for the input, I had researched this some time ago - I wish I had followed my instinct at that time as the avenue I was going to explore is now closed as the last of the two brothers passed away in June 2021.

I believe that the brothers concerned "but don't know for sure" were the Biegert Brothers, originally from Nebraska. In the past I have run some pretty deep searches on the FAA database, I have a version which contains most data back to 1992 and pretty much all data from late 1999.

The Biegert brothers were involved in a number of aviation ventures, certainly in Arizona and Nebraska and quite possibly other places.

I have been through the database several times in the past, but I'll be bringing the server online and updating the database over the next couple of weeks - so I'll have an other search and see what turns up.

Regards

Dave

[billsamuels]

Great effort Adrian.

Certainly narrowed down the field, a bit.

Cheers.

Bill

[adi44]

Hi Dave,

Ok, the FAA De-reg file gives these for "Biegert", again no ayres among them :-

N44905     22159           3021522     Biegert Aviation Inc , Paradise Valley , AZ                     1944                       09/02/1981
N44918     27365           3021528     Biegert Aviation Inc , Phoenix , AZ                               1975                       09/02/1981
N73349     75-8201        1380154     Biegert Bros Aerial Spraying , ,                                                                  04/01/1971
N117W      44-85806      1380204     Biegert Bros Inc , Phoenix , AZ                                                                  07/01/1971
N6060      2623              5261642     Biegert Bros Inc , Shickley , NE                                                                 11/10/1965         MEXICO
N61398     2785             2071302     Biegert Bros Inc , Shickley , NE                                   1943                       15/02/1956
N4809V     75-5785        1380102     Biegert Brothers , Shickley , NE                                                                 07/01/1971
N50022     5798             2071302     Biegert Brothers Inc , Shickley , NE                                                            28/11/1955
N73627     75-8204        1380154     Biegert Brothers Inc , Shickley , NE                                                            20/02/1956
N65448     79-239          2420228     Biegert Brothers Inc , Shickley , NE                                                            17/02/1956
N73303     2587             2071302     Biegert Brothers Incorporated , Shickley , NE               1943                        20/02/1956
N36325     28R7837275  7102816     Biegert Charles D , Malden , MA                                  1978                        22/05/1981         CANADA
N61129     11246           2420224     Biegert Max L , Lincoln , NE                                                                        15/02/1956

So still no closer !!

Cheers

Adrian

[gull04]

Hi Adrian,

Glad you've got your copy of the database up and running - I need to get mine updated and fired up. 

Yes, this was about as far as I'd got last time that I was researching this - they had a number of B-17's and C-54's that they used in Florida and Maine. They also had a number of Cessna T-50's, along with a couple of Vultee's I think.

I know that tracking this down is likely to take some time.

When I look at my notes on this and they are a bit shabby, but I notice that this one is missing - so not sure where it came from - I only looked at the registration and type.

N7431C which from my scribbled notes seems to be a PV-2

Regards

Dave

[gull04]

Hi Folks,

Haven't been able to spend long on this, but a couple of observations from the photograph.

I think that the type is actually a Rockwell, the cabin doesn't have the eyebrow windows and seems to be somewhat lower. Also the tailwheel doesn't seem to match the ones used on the AYRES or the THRUSH manufactured ones. But a little investigation also showed that there are a few possibilities for the manufacturer.

I've had a quick cut at the current DEREG file using the parameters for AERO COMMANDER, AYRES, THRUSH, ROCKWELL and SNOW just to have a look at the problem, but the output about 100 records shows how ungainly the approach is and this will only be more difficult using my database once I update it as the de-registered table I have is larger than the official one - due to my never throw any data away attitude.

So the approach needs to be a bit more focused;

• Identify the type with certainty.
• Identify the length of time that it was at Chandler.
• Produce a reduced dataset for further investigation.

On the identify the type, the basic list will comprise;


0143010,AERO COMMANDER ,600 S-2D
0143012,AERO COMMANDER ,600 S-2D RESTRICTED
0970101,AYRES CORPORATION ,S-2R
0970113,AYRES CORPORATION ,S-2R
0970114,AYRES CORP ,S-2R
6150135,NORTH AMERICAN ROCKWELL ,S-2R
7630201,ROCKWELL/TEACH ,S-2R
7630202,ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL ,S-2R
7630203,ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL ,S-2R-800
7630205,ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL ,S-2R
8380201,SNOW ,S-2
8380306,SNOW ,600 S-2D
8380309,THRUSH AIRCRAFT INC ,S-2R

There could obviously be other models to consider, don't generally pay that much attention to light aircraft - so not that well up on any others that could be in the frame.

davebasing , did anyone take a photograph of it at Chandler in 1998 - it would help with the type identification I think.

I'll keep people posted if I make any progress.

Regards

Dave