Spain EAV-8B serial and others

[chrisj]

One of the problems I have found , with big shows like RIAT , are the various lists that appear pre , during and after the show so can anyone please help with definite and confirmed information re the following serials ? 

Spain Navy EAV-8B   VA.1B-6  or 16  or 26   coded  01-916 .   My photo of the left side clearly shows a very faded figure 1 making serial   16 ,  RIAT check list gives  6 ,  some published lists say  it should be 26  as the 2 is faded !  Was the aircraft originally   16 but reserialed to 26  but the 2 has fallen off ?

SAAB  JAS-39Es   6003 & 6012  are given as c/n and used as  manufacturer's test aircraft . Some list give  396003 & 396012 , other 39-6003 & 39-6012  . My photo shows 39-6012 clearly on the left side under the forward canard !

One problem encountered is that various people have quoted the likes of the 'official RIAT check list'  as being their own and that contains faults as do other lists . 

So what are the correct serials please ?       Chrisj

[graham]

Hi Chris

I fed those three Harrier serials into PlaneBase and with that code 01-916, the serial should be VA.1B-26

As for the Gripens, PlaneBase lists those two as being 396003 and 396012, both as you say owned by Saab Aircraft, their c/ns being the same as the reggies

[chrisj]

Hi Graham , having the serials 396003 & 396012 there are too many digits and my photo very clearly shows 39-6012 on the left side just under the forward canard ! One expert says that they fly just using their c/n as identity which makes sense . As for the 'Harrier' , I did read that 26 was read off from one side but can not recall nor find where I found that , but again , my photo of the left side very clearly shows that where the leading digit should be there is a faint but clear figure 1 . I know that Plane Base is a good data base as are others but the input is human and we all know how fallible humans are ! Oh , just recalled , one expert told me that the Spanish EAV-8 s keep their codes and change serials which does not make sense to me . Thank for taking the trouble to look into this and reply . Chris

[zz]

Looking on Flickr again and typing in VA.1B-26 you find a couple of clear photos of the Harrier at RIAT this year.

On the starboard side, what can actually be read from the aircraft is VA.1B- 6 (with a space where the 2 should be).
When you really zoom in , you can very faintly see the missing number (it does look like it was once a 1).
But on the port side, it looks like the 2 is missing, but when you really zoom in you can see a faint number that looks like it was once a number 2 !

Scramble’s military database lists the aircraft as having had the number 2 removed.

Personally I think that with that evidence,
, I’m more than happy that the aircraft/serial was VA.1B-26. The printed checklists were presumably done before the real serial was realised.

[zz]

The Gripen-
39-6012 carried by one.
396003 (without the dash) carried by the other.

I think certain aircraft you just have to make your own call on what you want to record them as.

[chrisj]

Yes agreed , zz . Just heard from a friend that the Spanish in question had what clearly lookeChrisd like a missing 2 on the right side as photos show !

[zz]

In the photos I saw it was the left hand side that looked like a 2 had been removed.

[davebasing]

My own take is that the Spanish AV8s have always retained the same code/serial combinations. Unless that has changed recently then 01-916 should indeed still be 26.

As for the Gripens, Saab have a history of flying their test/demo aircraft using the c/n as the "serial" (rather like Class B UK marks I suppose). Examples are earlier model Gripens 39-3 & 39-4 at Farnborough 1992 (which never saw active service and were thus never issued with a normal Air Force serial) & 39-7 at Fairford 2010. 39-7 was originally a JAS39B serial 39803 which was at Fairford as such in 2003 and subsequently converted by Saab to a JAS39F as 39-7 and retained by Saab. The earlier model Gripens delivered to the Swedish AF had serials based on their c/n, e.g. 39101 was c/n 39-101 etc. If the newly produced JAS39Es were given 5 digit serials based on the last 3 of the c/n then these would risk clashing with older Gripens unless they either changed the first two digits (but these normally indicate the type, eg 39... for all versions of the JAS39) or went for 6 digits instead. While the Swedes normally use 5 digit serials there are examples of 6 figure serials such as the King Airs, Gulfstreams etc. Whether the two at Fairford will eventually form part of the Swedish AF order (but I see no reason at present to necessarily assume that they will become 396003 & 396012 if they ever do) or be retained by Saab (and thus always retain their 39-60003 & 6012 marks) is not yet clear and probably will not be until deliveries commence. Until that time I will personally record them as 39-6003 & 6102 in the same way as the Gripens at Farnborough 92 and Fairford 2010. Sorry to take so long in explaining why.

[chrisj]

Yes the two JAS-39E aircraft would be 'manufacturer's test frames and as we know , they use their c/n as identification . I only have a photo of 39-6012 as that and do not have a photo of 6003 . On the Spanish 'Harrier' . I have blown up my photo ( again ) 500% and the 'missing ' digit is exactly the same size and shape as the figure 1 in the VA.1B part of the serial , AND , looking at the nose wheel area 16 can plainly be seen on the airframe directly above and behind the nose wheel ! As this could go on and on , I would say just record what one can safely see . As for experts , well , there are plenty and the same for these data bases . About two years back I requested via another group , information on a batch of AN2s seen at Nicosia in the sixties . Air Britain and Scramble said the registrations did not exist and never had , that was until I produced a photograph taken from a Comet window in the dark so not very good . AB remains very quiet , Scramble Soviet Aircraft specialist admitted defeat and was trying to gain information from a Soviet based person . The information out there is only good if we question it at times . As with this RIAT , there are mistakes with in the official check list and others have carried these forward in their lists . The USAF weather Herc. , recorded as a WC-130J ( As I did ) but a check of the on aircraft data block says it is a C-130WJ . So who is correct ? The experts or the operator ? Chris

[chrisj]

Just had a look at the other Spanish and it has 14 on the frame behind the nose wheel , so this could be part of the code for both aircraft . Chris