AFA on Facebook

[graham]

Gents, for a while, Jeff, Bill and I have thought about extending the AFA coverage to a Facebook group. Peter has just gone down that route as an extension to his superb Blackbushe forum and it looks like it's working well. Just to reassure members, we will NEVER walk away from the forum we have here; it's been nearly three years in its making and we have close to 400 members, who possess a wealth of knowledge and experience. But we see Facebook as a valuable "add on" and it does have some advantages. Firstly, it's dead easy to access FB from a mobile phone, and we all own a mobile. Secondly, posting a photo to FB is easy and doesn't require a photo to be hosted on Flickr, Photobucket or any other storage site, you could take a photo with your phone and post it to the FB group in a few seconds.

We appreciate that not everyone "does" Facebook and we certainly don't expect those who don't to feel they have to sign up. But we think this will extend our coverage over a much broader field and of course, anyone who joins the FB group doesn't have to sign up to AFA. We're not trying to alienate any existing members, the coverage on the forum will always be top priority. But we have so many dormant members on the forum that we hope, by extending the coverage to FB, we might tempt them out to participate.

As always, we are completely happy to hear your views on this and all views will be taken on board, but just to stress once again, the forum is HERE TO STAY and we thank all members who have contributed over the past (nearly) three years.

[rh226]

Graham, Jeff and Bill,

I, personally, do not use Facebook and never will.

Be that as it may, I think that you may be letting yourselves in for danger here.

1). Quite a few people will use FB rather than the Forum purely because it is easier to access. As a result, a lot of information will be missing from the Forum because it just will not get posted a second time by the OP (for whatever reason).

2). Because of 1). you will be creating - albeit unwittingly - an "elite" sub-set of members who will have access to information that the rest of us will not have.  The whole point of the forum is to share all information with all members.

3). Because FB is far more widely accessible (and to non-members too), you will need to set rules as to what aspects should not be entered on FB, e.g. Heads Up (as that should be available to all members), movement information obtained from unauthorised sources (need for protection of source), etc.  And you will need to enforce these rules.  This will create a headache for you Admin chaps as you will be spending an awful lot more time in "moderating" the FB side of things.


Because of the first two points, I am very much against the idea. You are rightly proud of having one of the friendliest aviation forums, but the creation of an FB side will promote a division in the members - users and non-users.  Such a division is very much against the whole ethos of the Forum.

I am a member of another group which also advocated introducing an FB side of things but shelved the idea in view of members comments.  The gist of such comments boiled down to "why change something that is working so well?"

Cheers,

Bob

[Deleted]

Bob (RH226)
Well put Bob, I agree with you. I am another non Facebook person who will never use Facebook. I think use of it as you say will require stringent rules, which could not be managed securely.
Les

[Jeff]

Morning, 'groups' as they call them on facebook are closed to everyone who hasn't been accepted by the owners in a very similar way in which the forums are policed. It wouldnt be a free for all where anybody could view posts. We do value members input so please add to this thread if you have any questions or worries

[davebasing]

For what it may be worth, my view is that it has to be one or the other. Unless I'm missing something, running on FB alongside the present forum will inevitably mean that some things are posted on one medium and some on the other so that those of us (like myself, Les and Bob at least) who would opt to use just one of the mediums would obviously miss several postings (and with it losing the option of responding to requests etc), while others would anyway need to monitor both to ensure 100% coverage. For my part I set my AFA link to show "all recent posts" rather than "recent threads" so I see everything that is posted rather than select those of direct potential interest from the recent threads link. The sheer number of posts on this excellent forum would appear to me to demonstrate that posting here is not an arduous exercise and, while posting on FB (particularly photos) might perhaps be somewhat simpler, the existing forum does not appear to be deterring either contributors or new members. I would however defer to those that are FB users if indeed this is something that they could show to be a positive step.

Dave

[slideman]

I am a great believer in the ethos of if it aint broke dont fix it, AFA is definately not broken so I would remain as we are. I am a facebook user and a member of some groups and these have some merit but I am not a member of any that also run a seperate forum.
I feel information would be diluted across the two mediums, and would doubt very much if all information would be posted to both facebook & proboards.
I agree that it is easier for some to upload photos to facebook, indeed the groups I am on are quite picture heavy but the uploaded image quality is poor.
I would very much be in favour of leaving things as they are.

Trev

[keefyboy]

Graham

As you know, I have a FB account but I fully agree with the views and risks expressed by Bob, Les, Dave and Trev.

Personally, I would prefer the site to remain as it is.

Regards

Keith

[filair]

I am not into Facebook,however,not all groups are "closed".
I sometimes look at a local preserved railway site and at the bottom of their home page you can click on the
Facebook F and access it.
Maybe something like that would work.

[tonys4it]

Like the guys above have mentioned I would tend to believe it would dilute the information put about by all AFA members posts if they chose to do one or the other. Personally I do not use FB and wouldn’t be in favour of two sites to browse through.
 Keep up the good work chaps.
 Tony

[chrisp]

Nov 15, 2017 17:27:23 GMT tonys4it said:

Like the guys above have mentioned I would tend to believe it would dilute the information put about by all AFA members posts if they chose to do one or the other. Personally I do not use FB and wouldn’t be in favour of two sites to browse through.
 Keep up the good work chaps.
 Tony

[chrisp]

Please keep as is it’s a great site already

[bizfreeq]

I am with Bob and most of those above in the opinion that it will adversely affect the forum by starting up an FB group. There is too much potential for info just being posted there and never reaching the forum, thus making it less interesting to those that still use it. Eventually it could end up killing it off altogether because of the alienation of those remaining members.
Just my 5 peneth worth
Cheers
Mark

[zz]

Hi all

It has been very interesting to read this thread.
I was surprised but relieved to see so many others express my fears and opinions (and Bob did so very well!)

Graham, I don’t want to be awkward or negative, because everything about this site has been done so well.
However, my heart sank a little when I read the FB idea, despite having a FB account.
For all the reasons that people have listed above, and another reason that hasn’t been mentioned - anonymity, I wouldn’t be keen to see AFA go down the FB route.
It’s not such a big deal now, and I don’t quite know how it would work, but in the past there are posts I couldn’t have made on a FB site due to my job at the time.
On FB it would be obvious exactly who made that post.
There are obviously others that this could affect too.

I find this thread interesting, because you have several of the top posters replying on here, and perhaps not surprisingly they are not keen.
It would be good to hear from those who don’t post often - would it change their activities?
Are you hoping for new members?

As the others have said, my thoughts are- not broken - don’t fix it!
The site we have is great!

[christoff]

I too must agree with all the comments so far, that this site is the best, lets keep it that way and move forward with all the superb contributors we already have, to lose any of these fine people will only be of detriment to all.

Chris

[keefyboy]

Well said ZZ

"If it ain't broke - don't fix it"

This site is superb the way it is!

[rh226]

Phil,

Your point about anonymity is still very valid.

Earlier this year, Eurocontrol instigated an investigation, and subsequent clampdown, over unauthorised divulgence of daily flight plans.  Believe it or not, this was actually in relation to bizjets!!  Very fortunately, the various sources (who have direct computer access to the plans) managed to cover their tracks, but the culprit has now found himself very much "persona non grata" within the spotting fraternity (kicked off mailing lists, etc).

As a result of this, the various sources are very, very careful about who can be trusted to receive their information.  If any such information is further divulged, it is done in such a way that it cannot be traced back to the initial source. 

Bob

[deke]

I'm a pretty avid FB user but not much in favour of an AFA group.

It's been mentioned about anonymity and that's what I like here, I can keep my spotting hobby completely separate from the rest of my life.
In the same way I never use FB for work, on the other hand I do share musical, photography, and football passions there but these are fairly widely held interests amongst my friends network there, whereas a spotting habit is somewhat niche and not widely appreciated. That's not to imply any sense of shame! I just like it to be my personal interest, shared with like minded people who are not around my FB.

There's also the fact that FB gathers the data of its user activity and uses it to serve ads and for gawd knows what else, not something that's happening here.

To be honest since becoming a member AFA it has become something of a haven away from the increasing homogenisation, and disingenuousness of FB, a virtual garden shed!

Hope it's a useful twopennyworth.

[keefyboy]

Very well articulated deke - I share the same concerns as you plus all the other comments - especially those that Bob has made

Cheers

Keith

[rugbyref]

I too use FB (but only since I retired from work) but agree with all of the comments above, and vote nay to a FB site.

Phil

[zz]

Nov 15, 2017 22:19:24 GMT rh226 said:

Phil,

Your point about anonymity is still very valid.

Earlier this year, Eurocontrol instigated an investigation, and subsequent clampdown, over unauthorised divulgence of daily flight plans.  Believe it or not, this was actually in relation to bizjets!!  Very fortunately, the various sources (who have direct computer access to the plans) managed to cover their tracks, but the culprit has now found himself very much "persona non grata" within the spotting fraternity (kicked off mailing lists, etc).

As a result of this, the various sources are very, very careful about who can be trusted to receive their information.  If any such information is further divulged, it is done in such a way that it cannot be traced back to the initial source. 

Bob

Hi Bob

I didn’t explain myself very well. When I said, anonymity wasn’t so much of an issue now, I meant for me, as I’ve changed jobs.
When I joined the old site, I worked at a bizjet airfield and posted logs from there, hence the anonymous ZZ name! I couldn’t have done that on a FB site.
But I’m sure there are others who would still be affected.

Thats a “professional” reason for anonymity, and I also agree with Deke’s argument for a “personal” anonymity. Likewise, sometimes I want to keep some sides of my life a little more private than FB allows.

So whilst I probably would look at a FB site, I don’t think I would post on it.

cheers 

[graham]

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied here, I'm glad we asked the question and gave everyone the chance to air their views. It's clear to see that the "no" replies have been unanimous, so our FB plans will not go any further. As ever, thanks for everyone's feedback and thanks for making AFA the friendly place that it is.

[Deleted]

Graham
Thanks for letting AFA members know that a decision has been made to stay as we are. As you have seen that regular contributors have given good reasons to stay as AFA is and your request for replies has been given good respectability it deserved. It is obvious that members like this site and I am sure we will all keep up the good work that has been achieved over the past nearly three years.
Thanks
Les

[davebasing]

Graham/Bill/Jeff - Thanks for giving us all the opportunity to comment, it is after all your site and (as we know) there are certainly other site owners who would just have gone straight ahead with any proposed changes. Just shows how well and inclusively this site is run and that is of course also reflected in the great success of it all over the time it has been running. As others have already said, keep up the good work. Dave

[zz]

Yes, thank you for listening to/ reading the member’s concerns and responding to them!
Cheers

[rh226]

And also from me......thanks for listening to, and accepting, our concerns.

Cheers,

Bob

[graham]

Our pleasure guys...;0)

[billsamuels]

Evening Everyone,

Just been reading the latest posts on the FB subject and, I have to say, you guys really are the best.

So heartfelt thanks to everyone for taking the time to illustrate your views and opinions, it’s all really appreciated.

Cheers lads.

Bill

[Jeff]

Hi all,
All points well made and taken on board. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Jeff

[bizfreeq]

Thanks for listening chaps, it's good to see that the membership has a voice that will be considered, seldom happens elsewhere
All the best
Mark